Ahana: Namaste, everyone. My name is Ahana Ahura, and I run an IT company. Today, we are going to meet a very interesting personality—someone whom everyone enjoys meeting and listening to.
We have Binay Bhaiya with us, who is the Head of Art of Living Permaculture. His experience and deep connection with nature help us reconnect with our own natural selves.
Through today's conversation, I will try to bring forward some of the questions that many of us may have and understand in detail what Art of Living Permaculture actually is, how it connects with our lives, and how we can incorporate it into our everyday lifestyle.
Over to you, Binay Bhaiya.
Binay: Thank you, Ahana, for having me.
Look, this is about farming, yes, but the biggest concern is that the next generation is no longer connected with it. The next generation may not be seen grazing sheep and goats, raising cows, collecting cow dung, or working in the fields. Instead, they will be operating machines, using mobile phones, and making reels.
There is nothing wrong with that. But ultimately, everything depends on food, doesn't it? If you have food, everything else follows.
Earlier, our entire purpose—whether for the whole day or even throughout our lives—was to grow enough food to feed the family. Whether there was cash or not, there had to be grain.
That is why it makes me very happy to see today's generation taking an interest in farming and nature. Ahana doesn't come from a traditional farming family. She belongs to today's generation, and instead of simply taking up a job after completing her engineering education, she is creating jobs for others. So many families are benefiting because of her work.
Whatever terminology the latest trends use—startup, turnover of a few crores, or anything else—she has experienced that world and has proved that all of this is possible.
But beyond achieving financial success, there is another important question: How is our food being produced? Shouldn't we focus on its quality?
When people's health starts deteriorating at a young age, when their shoulders lose strength, their hands become weak, or their back starts hurting in the prime of life, a few people who have the knowledge and awareness begin to ask: "Why is my health deteriorating even though I take care of myself? I don't have bad habits, so why is this happening?"
That is why it gives me great joy when young people who have already achieved something in the world come forward and want to understand these subjects.
I truly appreciate that.
Ahana: Thank you so much, Bhaiya. You've raised a very important point.
Today, we go out and eat all kinds of different foods, and we often show more interest in processed or commercially available food than in natural food.
Honestly, it was my health that introduced me to permaculture. When I heard you speak about it, I found it amazing because my own health recovery began when I changed the way I ate.
It made me realize that this is deeply connected with our inner nature. When we change our external environment and the way we live, our body begins to respond from within.
I understood that there is a very deep science behind this, and that is how my interest in permaculture developed.
So, Bhaiya, I have a few more questions, especially from the perspective of today's generation.
Binay: Yes, absolutely.
Ahana: For us, permaculture is connected with natural farming, right? There are several terms we hear—"natural farming," "permaculture," and "organic farming."
Could you explain what these terms mean and how they are different from one another?
Binay: Yes, that's a very good question.
Whenever different terminologies are created, they generally have different meanings and different methods of practice.
The term that is currently trending the most is "organic."
In the name of organic, people often open their wallets and end up spending a lot because their trust has increased. But even many people selling organic products know that the term itself does not necessarily guarantee what people assume it does.
Organic farming became closely associated with certification. In India, one of the major organizations involved in agricultural export and certification is APEDA. You can easily look up its full form.
You could say that it functions as a parent organization that licenses smaller organizations to certify farmers and agricultural products.
There have also been controversies around certified products exported to Europe and America being found with chemical residues above permitted limits. This information is available in the public domain, and I have no personal issue with any organization.
So I would say that we should not blindly place our trust in the word "organic."
The concept of organic farming emerged from the same broader agricultural system that introduced chemical-based farming. Terminologies change over time. Technology changes, industries change, and the language around agriculture also changes.
So let us leave the word "organic" where it is.
"Natural," on the other hand, is much simpler. Natural means working without synthetic chemicals. That is how agriculture was traditionally practiced, and that is how it can continue to be practiced.
In between, we experimented with many different approaches—"Let's try this, let's try that." It is similar to teaching someone a technical skill and having them ask, "What if I ride the bicycle with one hand instead of two?"
People started experimenting in many different ways, and somewhere along the way, we lost trust in the entire system.
Today, whether someone agrees with what I am saying or not, there is one common feeling: people are increasingly uncertain about the quality of vegetables they purchase from the market.
So natural farming—whether you call it natural, biological, or by any other traditional term—is essentially about working in harmony with nature.
Now, what is permaculture?
Think of permaculture as a house.
A house has a bathroom, bedroom, prayer room, kitchen, parking area, and many other spaces. All of these together make a complete house.
Similarly, permaculture is a complete system.
One part of permaculture focuses on agriculture—specifically, permanent agriculture.
But the second and third aspects go beyond farming. They teach us that keeping the earth clean is not only the farmer's responsibility.
Every day, we use products such as Harpic, phenyl, shampoo, detergents, and other chemicals in our homes. Eventually, these substances enter the environment through our sewage and drainage systems.
Then we turn around and tell the farmer, "You should protect the environment."
No.
Permaculture says that our entire lifestyle should become sustainable.
Diseases do not come only from food. Our clothes can contain synthetic materials. Plastic microparticles are present in the environment. We use large numbers of plastic-based shoes and footwear. The garment industry is also one of the world's major polluting industries.
All of this goes beyond agriculture.
Permaculture points toward all these areas and says: "Fix this too. Fix that too."
Think about a car. If you only put air in its four tyres, will it run? No.
If only the ignition works, will it run? No.
If only the brakes work, will it run? No.
The car works only when all its components function properly.
Permaculture looks at creation in the same way.
Even a small component can be as important as a major one. When all the components work together properly, life becomes healthier and more joyful.
Then a farmer can farm properly, an industrialist can run an industry responsibly, an employee can perform their job properly, and an artist can entertain people.
Everyone can perform their role properly when everyone supports one another.
That is why I see permaculture as the big brother—the larger framework that connects everything.
Ahana: Wow! Thank you, Bhaiya. That's really amazing.
I also read one of your articles where you connected all these ideas beautifully.
It becomes a form of caring—caring for nature, caring for farmers, and also caring for ourselves and the food we bring into our homes.
So permaculture is not simply teaching us a farming technique. It is teaching us how to care for nature and how to live.
Binay: Absolutely.
Ahana: I find that one of the most beautiful aspects of it.
I also read a little about the Permaculture Conference, which is happening this year on August 22 and 23.
Could you tell us a little more about the conference and the solutions we are bringing for farmers and for everyone else?
Binay: Yes.
One of the major issues being discussed today is politics and geopolitics—questions about which country is superior, which country is stronger, and so on.
But we also need to understand what these conflicts will actually affect.
Take fuel, for example. Fuel supply is not controlled by just one country. Multiple countries are connected—one buys, another sells, another transports, and so on.
If that system gets disrupted, today's agriculture will be heavily affected because modern agriculture is deeply dependent on industry.
In a geopolitical crisis, one of the systems that could be affected most severely, directly and indirectly, is the food supply system.
That is why every country is trying to protect its own food and energy security.
There is another important issue—the Strait of Hormuz.
India uses a huge quantity of urea every month, and a significant portion of our agricultural inputs are dependent on imports.
If international trade is disrupted, supplies can be affected.
We have also changed our soil over the last 60–70 years in such a way that it has become increasingly dependent on external inputs.
It is similar to how a person can become dependent on medication. If someone has been taking blood-pressure medicine for 30 or 40 years and suddenly stops taking it, the body reacts.
We have created a similar dependency in our soil.
We have also changed the seeds and the overall agricultural system.
These are the problems we need to understand.
And if we don't understand the problem, how will we find the solution?
That is what our conference is about.
Layer by layer, we want to unlock the technical and non-technical areas where people get stuck.
We are not claiming that we are enlightened and that we have all the answers. Not at all.
But because we sit at the feet of our Guru, we have faith that whatever comes through the wisdom of a saint can benefit society.
So we want to address the areas where consumers get stuck, farmers get stuck, businesspeople get stuck, and young people get stuck—and provide practical ways forward.
Let me give you an example.
Suppose you are working in a city, you have earned well, and you are tired of spending your life in front of screens. You decide that you want to start farming.
But you don't have land.
So you decide to buy land.
Does land become available simply because you have money?
No.
Today, one of the biggest areas of confusion in India is related to land and revenue matters.
You could end up buying the wrong land.
Which land should you buy? Which land should you avoid? What documents should you verify? What is the correct rate? What happens during registration? How will electricity reach the property? What kind of fencing should you install?
If you don't understand these things, your money can get stuck, and you may spend years dealing with legal problems.
That is why we have invited lawyers who are also our students. Some of them practice in the Supreme Court, some are senior corporate lawyers, and some travel internationally.
They will guide people on what to consider when purchasing agricultural land.
It is similar to how your parents advise you when you leave home to study in another city.
They tell you, "Be careful. Don't eat too much outside food. Don't get into unnecessary fights. Be careful with people. Drive safely."
They practically give you a constitution before sending you away.
Similarly, these experts will tell you: "If you are going to buy agricultural land, keep these things in mind."
Now suppose you have purchased the land, completed the paperwork, and built the boundary.
The next question is: How do you make your farm independent of groundwater?
Agriculture across the world depends heavily on groundwater, but groundwater resources are declining.
Water exists above the ground too—in rivers, ponds, rainwater, and other natural systems.
Yet we keep searching underground and drilling deeper and deeper.
Water has now even become a commodity.
So we need to rethink our relationship with water.
At the conference, we will bring experienced people who have spent decades working on groundwater revival and rainwater harvesting.
They will explain how to make a farm more water-independent and more dependent on rainfall and natural water cycles.
We will also discuss cows, tree plantation, and farm economics.
How can you earn from a farm?
Today, the average landholding size in India is around 1–2 acres.
How much can a person earn from that land?
If a young person cannot earn a reasonable income from farming, why would they choose farming as a career?
That is why we have brought practical and experienced experts who will share their knowledge with us.
Each expert will spend time explaining their area of expertise, and then we will continue the discussion and take the learning forward.
That is what the conference is about.
If you are a consumer, you will learn what to buy, where to buy it from, and how to identify quality.
Otherwise, in the name of appearance and convenience, we often bring all kinds of products into our homes.
As a consumer, you can easily become confused.
When you spend two days learning from experienced people, you will understand things like: "Don't buy this from there. Buy this from here. This is better quality."
So whether you are a consumer, a practicing farmer, or someone planning to enter farming in the future, wherever you are stuck, we will try to help you untangle that knot.
We want to guide future farmers from beginning to end.
That is what our conference is all about.
Ahana: Bhaiya, you mentioned earlier that Gurudev's guidance will also be part of this.
Binay: Yes, absolutely.
He is the one who gave his blessings and started this project.
Otherwise, I was a computer professional. I worked in the industry for ten years.
Guruji told me, "Stay here."
So I stayed.
From the very first day, he gave me this work, this seva.
I have been here ever since.
I don't know where the journey will eventually take us, but it has been a wonderful journey.
Ahana: So will Gurudev also be attending the event?
Binay: Yes, absolutely.
Ahana: Wonderful.
So Gurudev will be there, along with all the other speakers and experts who will guide us.
How many days will the event be?
Binay: It will be a two-day conference.
Two full days, from morning to evening.
In the morning, we will meditate. Throughout the day, we will have discussions and sessions. We will eat delicious sattvic food.
In the evening, we will sing and dance with Gurudev, and there will also be a Q&A session with him.
We will meet many people.
Participants will come from across India.
Some will be coming to learn, while others will already have experience and be practicing what they have learned.
So there will also be a lot of networking.
People say that networking is the new oil and data is the new oil.
When you have a strong network, you don't feel alone or afraid.
Farming can sometimes feel frightening when you are walking alone.
But when you find a fellow traveller on the same path, the journey becomes enjoyable.
That is what this gathering will provide.
Ahana: Yes. And by sharing our different challenges with each other, we can reduce the losses we might otherwise experience by learning everything through our own trial and error.
Binay: Exactly.
The problem is that over the last few decades, our way of living has changed—or perhaps has been changed—in such a way that we expect help for everything from the market or the government.
In that process, society itself becomes weaker.
When we become dependent on external systems, we lose our own capacity.
The market will sell you something, and governments have five-year terms.
But how many of your problems can actually be solved in five years?
A problem that has taken decades to develop cannot necessarily disappear within five years.
Governments change, but we have to take responsibility ourselves.
When people come together like this, we can create a system where we help one another.
Otherwise, we keep depending on the market, while someone else continues making money from our dependency.
Ahana: Bhaiya, Gurudev has a strong focus on ensuring that farmers in this country receive support and that future generations remain connected with farming and nature.
So what is his vision for Art of Living Permaculture?
Binay: The problems emerging in farming are many.
The first is the shortage of people and labour.
There is hardly any industry where manpower is completely unnecessary. No matter how much machinery you bring in, you still need people.
Second, our dependence on the market is increasing.
Our dependence on industry is also increasing.
Permaculture tries to reduce these dependencies.
Reduce digging and gradually move towards minimum disturbance of the soil.
If you are taking water from a borewell, that's fine as a starting point, but also create a pond and gradually begin harvesting rainwater.
Gurudev has always wanted farming to move in this direction—towards natural, nature-based agriculture.
We have been working towards this for around a decade.
We may not have matched his pace yet, but that's okay.
We will get there.
Ahana: Many people want to make farming their full-time career, just as we have chosen our careers.
We build software and AI agents, and that is our profession.
But if someone wants to make farming their full-time career and support a family, there are financial considerations involved.
So from the perspective of wealth creation and career development, how can permaculture help us become more financially independent?
There is also a certain fear around choosing farming as a career.
Binay: I understand.
When you started your startup, did it become successful immediately?
Did you become a billionaire on the first day?
No.
You had a plan.
You probably thought, "It will take one year, two years, four years."
Did everything happen exactly according to that timeline?
Ahana: No, Bhaiya. It took longer. I'm still working through proper planning.
Binay: Exactly.
There are always variations. Problems keep appearing.
When you entered the world of education and industry, you invested around 20 years in that journey.
Your parents invested 20–22 years of their lives raising you without knowing exactly what you would become.
They had that much patience.
So when it comes to farming, why don't we give it the same patience?
In fact, agriculture can provide some of the fastest returns.
Vegetables can be harvested in three months, and leafy vegetables can come within one and a half months.
But there is a major misunderstanding about earning money from farming.
People think that producing more means earning more.
That is not necessarily true.
You make money when your product sells.
Simply producing more does not guarantee income.
You could fill hundreds of cupboards with products, but if nobody buys them, what happens?
The same applies to farming.
Money is made through sales.
In a company, isn't production one department and marketing another?
Ahana: Absolutely.
Binay: Does the production manager normally give the marketing strategy?
No.
And who often plays a critical role in generating revenue?
The marketing person.
So when there is so much agricultural production, don't you think selling the produce also requires expertise?
Now look at it from another perspective.
Suppose you have a product.
Is the entire world your customer?
No.
There are specific customers.
But food is unique because every living being needs it.
Food has an almost unlimited customer base.
Today I'm wearing a kurta. Tomorrow I may wear a T-shirt. The day after, something else.
Vehicles change. Gadgets change. Technology changes.
The phones and laptops we use today may look completely different in the future.
But food remains essential.
Our human body remains fundamentally the same.
Our basic nutritional needs remain the same.
And everything begins with food.
So when you have a product for which every living being is a potential customer, why should you assume that you will necessarily suffer a loss?
If you are suffering a loss, perhaps you haven't learned how to sell the product properly.
You may have given the responsibility of selling to the wrong person.
For young people asking how they can earn from farming, I would say: use the marketing skills you already understand.
You don't necessarily need expensive advertising.
Build a direct relationship with your customers.
Find 20–25 loyal customers, and a significant amount of your farm produce can be consumed directly by them.
And you don't even need to charge them more than the market price.
Suppose they are already paying a certain market rate for wheat flour or rice.
Give the farmer a fair share of that value.
There can be a significant difference between the price a farmer receives and the price a consumer pays.
For example, a farmer may receive ₹5 per kilogram for cucumbers while the consumer may pay ₹40 or more.
Ahana: It can be even more than that, Bhaiya.
Binay: Exactly. The difference can be 8–10 times.
If that additional value reaches the farmer directly, the consumer may not necessarily pay more, while the farmer can earn significantly more.
Then you don't just support your own children—you could support an entire neighbourhood or village.
People may say, "It sounds easy to say, but it's difficult to do."
So tell me: what great achievement in life was truly easy?
Whether it is spiritual practice, education, or earning money, everything takes time.
When your mind becomes deeply engaged in something, you don't even notice the time passing.
The same can happen with farming.
So I tell young people: plan properly and start.
That is why I specifically teach young people and future farmers.
I don't go to experienced farmers to give them advice.
I go to them to learn from them.
Ahana: Listening to you, it seems that permaculture isn't only for farmers.
It is actually for all of us.
Shouldn't we all attend and learn about it properly?
After all, we all eat food, so we should know what we are eating—for our own health and the health of our families.
Binay: Exactly.
I often tell people something simple.
When it's time to buy a mobile phone, the whole family sits together and discusses it.
"Should we buy this camera? How much storage does it have? Should we buy an iPhone? Which model is better?"
We spend so much time deciding about a phone.
But when it comes to food, we simply tell the driver or delivery service, "Bring it."
Why?
At the same time that we are making careless decisions about food, medicines are reaching our homes even faster.
We need to become more responsible.
We are the link between two generations.
We have seen how the previous generation lived, and we have the opportunity to teach the next generation.
If we don't take that responsibility, there may eventually be nobody left to teach future generations how to live sustainably or how to grow food.
There are examples around the world where people have become so dependent on external systems that they have forgotten basic agricultural skills.
Recently, Gurudev visited Venezuela and conducted a YLTP there. One of the projects involved teaching people about farming.
When everything is provided for free for too long, people can become dependent and lose their ability to provide for themselves.
So we need to understand how these systems work.
You don't necessarily have to do everything yourself.
But you should know enough that nobody can easily fool you.
Ahana: So, Bhaiya, should students studying agriculture today and farmers who are already practicing farming also attend this conference?
Binay: One hundred percent.
They absolutely should.
The moment we hear the word "farmer," many people imagine someone who is poor, helpless, and struggling.
But think about it.
The farmer produces the very thing that sustains every living being.
And yet, the person responsible for producing our food may not even have enough resources for himself.
If we want to redefine what it means to be a farmer, and if we want to take pride in the work our grandfathers and fathers did, then we need to come, learn, and understand what is actually possible.
For example, there is a person who started with just one acre of land and eventually connected thousands of farmers directly with customers.
The business has reportedly reached a turnover of more than ₹400 crore.
He himself still has only one acre.
His personal income is not ₹400 crore.
But his son, daughter, and daughter-in-law left high-paying corporate careers to help him build and manage the entire chain.
All three are now earning more per month than they previously earned in corporate jobs.
And this is happening through farming—through non-chemical farming.
The outside world will tell you many things.
But remember the saying about the crow flying away with your earring.
Before chasing the crow, first check whether the earring was actually yours.
We often chase the crow without checking the facts.
When you meet people who have real experience and see successful examples in front of you, a different kind of confidence develops.
Then you can start working on solutions.
So please come and meet such people.
There are nine traditional means of acquiring knowledge, and one of the first is travel.
Book knowledge comes much later.
When you travel from another city or state, stay at the ashram, meet different people, and experience the environment, many things begin to become clearer.
That is one of the reasons a Guru is important—to help resolve confusion and provide direction.
Ahana: Bhaiya, let's also talk a little about startups.
India has taken many steps in this direction, and there are now many agricultural startups.
Since I run a company myself, I know many startup founders personally.
If some of these startups see one another as competitors, what do you think is the solution?
I feel that there is a need for greater unity.
How do you see this?
Binay: As far as I understand—and I may be completely wrong, so let me put that disclaimer first—many young people have started agri-startups without deeply understanding agricultural techniques, the science of growing food, crop cycles, and the real challenges farmers face.
When this happens, I don't think it necessarily benefits the soil or the farmers.
It certainly benefits the startup.
They create a product and turn the farmer into their customer.
They say, "We built this sensor."
"We built this robot."
"We built this drone."
But at the end of the day, you have built a business and are looking for customers.
That is different from solving the fundamental problems of farming.
Agriculture and food are among the world's largest industries.
So you may become part of the food industry without actually solving the farmer's problems.
But a startup that begins by understanding how farming works, what farmers actually struggle with, and whether the priority should be increasing production or improving the productive capacity of the soil—that startup has the potential to go much further.
Such a startup can make farmers prosperous as well.
There is a saying that the best employer is one who helps employees become entrepreneurs.
If you help farmers become prosperous, you will always have farmers wanting to work with you.
Customers will also come.
You become the connecting link.
I believe that kind of model can last much longer.
Ahana: Bhaiya, as the population grows, demand for food also increases.
If we look at food supply and demand from a business perspective, pesticides can make crops grow faster and sometimes increase their size.
Please don't take this the wrong way—we are simply trying to understand.
When we grow vegetables through permaculture and natural farming, what difference does it make to the timeline?
Will the product reach consumers faster, or will it take longer?
Because if production is slower, doesn't that affect demand?
Binay: Let me correct the question slightly.
The idea of "late" and "early" is something the industrial system has given us.
Look at mobile phones.
When mobile phones first launched, there were incoming and outgoing charges.
Yet we were happy with them.
Today we are equally excited about 5G and 6G.
The technology changed, and our expectations changed with it.
Industry keeps increasing our speed.
But speed without direction is dangerous.
If your speed and direction are not aligned, you will crash.
Suppose you are running very fast, but you are running in the wrong direction.
Will you win?
No.
So both direction and speed need to be aligned.
Industry has increased our speed, but our direction has become unclear from the perspective of nature and ecology.
Our economy is not always supporting ecology.
Now look at synthetic chemicals and pesticides.
There are methods that can make vegetables appear larger or mature faster.
Imagine someone giving you an injection and making a vegetable dramatically larger in a short period of time.
Would you knowingly eat it?
Probably not.
But when the process is hidden, the consumer only sees the appearance—the size, colour, and freshness.
This information is widely discussed and can be researched independently.
So the argument that population growth automatically means we must increase chemical-based production is not as simple as it appears.
Let me give you two pieces of information that everyone should think about.
First, the rate of global population growth is slowing.
Japan is one example. Its population is declining, and there are concerns about the shortage of children and younger generations.
India's population growth is also changing.
Many people are choosing to have one child or no children, and some people are choosing not to marry.
The second point concerns land use.
A large portion of fertile land is used to produce animal feed, which ultimately supports the meat industry.
Food grain is grown on a much smaller portion of agricultural land.
And a significant percentage of the food produced is also wasted.
Despite all of this, the world is still producing enough food to feed its population overall.
Where people remain hungry, distribution and access are also major issues.
Imagine if more of the world's land were used directly to grow food for human consumption.
The earth could potentially support a much larger population.
Now try telling someone who depends heavily on the meat industry to reduce meat consumption—they may give you many arguments.
But the point is that we need to examine the entire system rather than simply saying, "There are more people, therefore we need more chemicals."
This is an argument that the industrial system often uses to justify increasing production through chemical inputs.
Meanwhile, many wealthy institutions and individuals can afford to consume naturally grown food while the wider population is encouraged to rely on chemical-intensive agriculture.
We need to question this.
When you started your company, did you think you would employ the entire population of India or the entire world?
No.
You started with a small team and gradually expanded.
So why should a farmer feel responsible for feeding the entire world?
A farmer should first be able to feed and support his own family.
If 10–20 people are able to eat because of your work, that itself is meaningful.
God will take care of the rest of the world.
Many arguments about global food production create unnecessary fear among farmers.
If you want to become a farmer, learn the facts and understand the numbers.
If you do that, I believe you can build something extraordinary.
The world should be guided by ecology and food security, not by economic growth alone.
I am not against economic development.
But if the economy is built on and supported by ecology, it will survive much longer.
When the economy destroys ecology, the economy itself eventually suffers.
When we apply only economic logic to nature—more money means more roads, more buildings, more extraction—we destroy the ecological foundation that supports us.
Think about water.
Many people don't trust water that isn't bottled, but they also don't necessarily trust bottled water.
There are concerns about contamination and quality.
Similarly, look at air quality.
When people come to a clean natural environment, they often notice immediately how deeply they can breathe.
Food quality is another major concern.
You only need to visit a hospital to see how many lifestyle and health problems are affecting younger people.
I don't want to sound pessimistic.
But when a problem exists, we have to diagnose it correctly before finding the solution.
Peel the problem layer by layer.
Find the root cause.
Find where the problem actually begins.
Then we can start fixing it.
That is the real point.
Ahana: Bhaiya, do you feel it is clear how this problem developed so suddenly and on such a massive scale?
From everything you have described, there seems to be a huge loss—not only for farmers but for the entire agricultural system that India has built over generations.
How can we fix this?
What kind of support do we need from people across India?
And how much time will it collectively take to recover?
Binay: I cannot give you an exact timeline.
But Gurudev often gives a beautiful example.
If a house has been dark for 100 years, it does not take 100 years to bring light into it.
You simply light one matchstick, and the darkness disappears.
The absence of darkness is light.
Our agricultural and ecological systems have certainly deteriorated in many ways.
But Mother Earth is still giving us food.
She has continued to produce despite everything we have done.
That itself gives us hope.
We don't need to become excessively pessimistic.
But awareness is essential.
Some things have deteriorated at the societal and national level, and policy alone cannot solve them.
Laws exist against many wrong actions, but simply having a law does not mean people will stop breaking it.
This is ultimately a matter of public awareness.
That is why saints and spiritual teachers have historically played a role in social transformation.
Gurudev and many other saints have taken up this responsibility in different ways.
It will take time, but positive change can happen quickly once awareness begins spreading.
A school student recently argued with me.
He said, "There is so much chemical exposure around us. We should already be dead."
I explained to him that dosage also matters.
We are not directly drinking industrial chemicals.
We are exposed to them indirectly, and disease can take decades to develop.
That is why someone who has lived a disciplined life can still develop serious health problems later.
Something may have gone wrong 25 or 30 years earlier.
Similarly, problems created over 25 or 30 years don't necessarily require another 25 or 30 years to improve.
It depends on how quickly we respond.
That is why media and communication are so important.
I have encouraged YouTubers and content creators to talk about these issues and promote the conference.
Because you can create content only when your basic needs are taken care of.
How can devotion flourish on an empty stomach?
So we need to talk about food, farming, health, water, and nature openly.
Look at how certain harmful products are marketed with attractive names.
If something unhealthy can be marketed as "tonic" or "syrup," then why should we feel shy about talking about pure food?
We should make our natural systems attractive and accessible.
Water, air, soil, food—these are fundamental.
Why should we be embarrassed to speak about them?
Our solutions are simple, practical, and durable.
We should talk about them openly.
When Gurudev travels around the world encouraging people to breathe, meditate, practice Sudarshan Kriya, explore Ayurveda, and understand India's knowledge systems, then why should we hesitate to talk about sustainable food and farming?
I used to have that hesitation.
I don't anymore.
We need to speak about these subjects openly, while maintaining dignity and responsibility in our words.
Awareness can change society.
Ahana: Bhaiya, could you share some water-harvesting techniques that all of us can adopt?
Binay: Yes.
We have a lot to learn from our ancestors.
Those who are fortunate enough to still have grandparents—or even great-grandparents—should sit with them and listen to how people lived earlier.
Before hand pumps, borewells, pipelines, plumbing systems, and modern water infrastructure, people depended on nature-based water systems.
Water harvesting is not a new concept.
Water conservation has always been part of human civilization.
That is why villages were often established near rivers.
Where rivers were not available, people dug wells and built ponds.
Bangalore, for example, is known for having developed historically around a network of lakes rather than a major river.
Hundreds of lakes were created before modern excavators and JCB machines existed.
So water harvesting is not complicated.
If water is flowing away and you slow it down and allow it to enter the ground, that is water harvesting.
Most water conservation happens underground.
We depend heavily on groundwater, so we need to allow the earth to absorb water.
Think about how you drink water.
If I take a hosepipe and pour water directly into your mouth at high speed, can you drink it?
No.
You first sit down.
Our grandparents used to tell us, "Sit down and drink water."
Then you drink slowly, one glass at a time.
The earth is similar.
To allow the earth to drink water, we need to slow down the water.
As the speed decreases, the water spreads.
As it spreads, the soil absorbs it.
That is essentially the principle of water harvesting:
Slow it. Spread it. Sink it.
Slow the water down, allow it to spread, and let it sink into the ground.
When water moves extremely fast, it behaves like a laser—it moves straight ahead and carries everything with it.
That causes erosion and can contribute to landslides.
Slow it down, and the problem becomes easier to manage.
If you live in a city, you can start with something very simple.
Collect rainwater from your roof instead of allowing it to flow away.
Use a tank or storage drum.
You can also build underground storage systems.
It doesn't necessarily require crores of rupees.
We have a friend named Venkatrao Sir who lives nearby.
We show his house during our training sessions.
He harvests around 70,000–80,000 litres of rainwater.
There are only three people in his house, and he says that the stored water lasts for around seven to eight months.
He does not depend heavily on municipal water.
The tank and related work cost around ₹1.5–2 lakh.
So water harvesting is essentially a form of jugaad—practical innovation.
You don't always have to buy something from the market.
Look around your home and find ways to conserve water.
If you need technical guidance, there are government agencies such as the Central Ground Water Authority (CGWA).
You can contact them for guidance on groundwater recharge, borewell recharge, and water harvesting in existing apartment buildings.
It can be much simpler than people imagine.
Ahana: Bhaiya, for people who want to visit the ashram, the environment here at Art of Living Permaculture is so beautiful.
There are so many varieties of vegetables, each with its own fragrance and character.
The food I ate here was also incredibly delicious and very different from the food we normally eat.
So how can people come and visit?
Binay: The ashram is a public place.
It is open to visitors from 8 AM to 6 PM.
When you arrive, there is a guest registration process.
You can take our bus, which will take you around the ashram free of charge.
You can see the permaculture farm, the goshala, the Gurukul, and other areas.
If you prefer, you can also walk around yourself.
You can make an appointment through our website, fill out the required form, or call the available phone numbers.
If you specifically want to visit the permaculture farm, it is better to take an appointment.
We spend most of our time working in the fields.
If visitors arrive randomly throughout the day, we may spend too much time attending to them instead of taking care of the farm.
Then what will you actually see when you visit?
So please take an appointment.
The contact details and website information are available, and the visit can be arranged accordingly.
Ahana: One of my second-to-last questions is this: Could you explain some of the benefits of permaculture?
Binay: Yes, certainly.
The next generation is highly intellectual and analytical.
They want logical explanations for everything.
So let's look at the benefits logically.
Permaculture does not simply provide food.
As I said at the beginning, it can reduce our daily exposure to synthetic chemicals.
When that exposure decreases, there can be many benefits.
Our surroundings can become healthier.
The air around us can become cleaner.
Our dependence on plastic and unnecessary consumption can also decrease.
Our expenses can reduce significantly.
Think about your home.
How many pairs of shoes are lying outside?
Does the number of shoes actually correspond to the number of people living in the house?
And where do those shoes go after two or four years?
Many modern shoes contain plastic-based materials.
They are often difficult to repair.
Once they break, they are thrown away.
Plastic can take hundreds of years to degrade.
Eventually, it enters landfills, soil, or oceans.
When you understand permaculture properly, your consumption becomes more need-based.
You buy something because you actually need it rather than simply because you want it.
That's the first benefit.
The second is that your connection with nature increases.
Recent research has discussed the benefits of spending time around greenery and soil.
If children spend time with plants and soil, it can positively influence their development.
Even 20 minutes of meaningful interaction with nature can make a difference.
You become more connected to the earth.
And when your life becomes more connected with soil and plants, your dependence on medicines, markets, hospitals, and external systems can gradually decrease.
What more benefit do we need?
Then there is digestion.
Digestive problems are extremely common.
One reason is that the quality and nature of our food have changed.
We eat whatever is convenient, wherever it is available.
If you grow pure food, you can eat pure food.
When food is fresh, local, and nutritious, you may not need to consume as much quantity to feel satisfied.
The body looks for nutrition.
The tongue looks for taste.
The mind looks for the feeling of fullness.
When the food is nutritious, the body receives what it actually needs.
Another benefit is the human connection involved in agriculture.
The more people participate directly in farming, the stronger the connection can become.
Meeting someone face-to-face is different from meeting them only through a Zoom call.
Even if you speak to your parents on video every day, you still feel the need to visit them physically.
Online communication has limitations.
Human connection is a matter of the heart.
Agriculture is an art.
Science comes from the brain, while art comes from the heart.
We need both.
But agriculture should remain an art.
Permaculture and agriculture should remain connected with the heart.
When that connection remains, the system does not become polluted by excessive commercialisation.
Quality remains at the centre.
When quality is right, many other things naturally fall into place.
Ultimately, you can become more vibrant physically, calmer mentally, and clearer in your thinking.
As Gurudev says:
Clarity in the mind, purity in the heart, and sincerity in action.
Growing food can help bring these three aspects together.
You also get the company and support of cows, which have an important place in Indian tradition.
I could continue talking about the benefits, but the real question is:
Do you need a guarantee of every benefit before you take action?
Or should you take action first and allow the benefits to come naturally?
Just start.
The benefits will follow.
Some things have been tested through generations and do not need to be questioned endlessly.
Scientific understanding also changes over time.
Earlier, certain products were considered healthy. Later, opinions changed.
So scientific recommendations can evolve.
But traditional practices that have been tested across generations also deserve attention.
For example, Krishna is traditionally associated with cows and is known as Gopal.
He is also associated with butter.
These traditions tell us something about the importance of nutritious food during childhood and adolescence.
If we want our country to remain strong, our children need strong and healthy bodies.
That strength does not come from highly processed foods.
It comes from nutritious, natural food.
The benefits are enormous if you are willing to adopt the lifestyle, understand it deeply, and experience it yourself.
Ahana: Yes, Bhaiya. Thank you.
And one final question.
Building a goshala, or cow shelter, has been a part of Indian culture for a long time.
How should we approach it?
When we enter the world of permaculture, what role does a goshala play, and how are the two connected?
Binay: Yes.
Interestingly, the word "goshala" itself is relatively recent.
You don't find the modern concept of a separate goshala in the Vedas in the way we understand it today.
Earlier, every household would keep a cow.
It was part of the household economy.
Today's malls provide everything—from raw grains to cut vegetables and ready-made spices.
A few decades ago, much of that work happened at home.
Similarly, there was no need for large separate goshalas because cows were traditionally kept within households.
Today, many households keep dogs instead of cows.
When the number of cows declined, we began to realise their importance.
There is a saying that we often understand the value of something only after losing it.
The same thing happens with many aspects of traditional life.
So what is a goshala?
It became necessary because cows needed to be protected.
If their numbers continued declining, we could lose them completely.
And the ecological consequences of losing livestock and animals can be significant.
Let me give you two examples.
There is a person from Zimbabwe named Allan Savory.
He is considered one of the world's leading ecological thinkers and has spoken extensively about restoring degraded ecosystems.
He has given talks through the TED platform, and his work focuses on restoring grasslands and ecosystems.
Let me explain briefly why this is relevant to cows and animal-based farming.
At one point, authorities believed that increasing elephant populations were damaging vegetation and forests.
They decided that reducing elephant numbers would protect the ecosystem.
Over a period of time, thousands of elephants were killed.
But instead of improving, the ecosystem deteriorated further.
The scientist involved eventually realised that the original assumption had been wrong.
He later explained that animal movement and dung play an important role in ecological cycles.
Dung helps soil retain moisture and contributes to soil health.
The point is not to accept my words blindly.
Please research it yourself.
The second example is Gondia district in Maharashtra.
Gondia is known for having a significant population of indigenous cows.
Despite being located in a region that experiences water-related challenges, the area has had relatively better water availability in some locations.
People there have traditionally valued their cows and are reluctant to sell them outside the local area.
When you have a large number of cows, you also have a large amount of dung.
And dung plays a role in soil fertility and water retention.
Think about how every apartment building needs toilets.
Similarly, wherever there are cows, there is naturally a reserve of dung.
The more dung available in the agricultural ecosystem, the greater its potential contribution to soil health and water conservation.
So, in my understanding, permaculture is essentially many of our traditional systems being given a modern name.
And we cannot completely separate agriculture from animals.
If animal support disappears, our dependence on tractors and external inputs increases.
So we need to choose wisely.
We should build and maintain goshalas.
If Gurudev is doing this work, we should also support it.
Here, there are around 2,000 cows, and we have large and small goshalas across many of our other ashrams as well.
You don't need to start with thousands of cows.
Even if you can care for one cow or five cows responsibly, that itself can have value.
There are traditional verses that associate cows, milk, and ghee with nourishment, intelligence, strength, and prosperity.
When people understand this connection, the discussion about cows goes beyond simple profit and loss.
These ideas may sound idealistic, but practically, when a farm and cows exist together, both systems can support each other.
If you have a cow but no farm, or a farm but no animal support, the system can remain incomplete.
A healthy farm should function as an integrated system.
That is how I see it.
Ahana: Bhaiya, I honestly don't have words.
Binay: This subject is very close to my heart because I have also seen the other side of life—the world where everyone is constantly running.
I left corporate life in February 2012.
I came to the ashram on April 13, 2012.
At that time, the software industry was at its peak.
I had seen that world.
I also remember how colleagues used to carry Crocin tablets in their pockets during work.
During night shifts, someone would come and ask, "Do you have a Crocin?"
I'd ask, "Why do you need it?"
They would say, "I'm not feeling well."
And I would wonder—if you're not feeling well, how is a tablet going to solve the real problem?
At that time, it almost became a status symbol.
People would say, "I'm so committed to my work that I even carry my own medicine."
But did we come into this world to work ourselves to death?
Did we take jobs so that we could live well, or so that we could simply survive our work?
I didn't understand it then.
I understand it now.
By the time people reach 30 or 40, many feel completely exhausted.
They spend their lives matching different time zones and working for clients they may never even meet.
Somewhere, we have become servants of the system while believing that we have built successful careers.
Come into this direction instead.
Even in corporate life, you are usually helping sell something.
Someone is selling credit cards.
Someone is selling clothing.
Someone is selling technology.
Something is always being sold.
So why not come into food?
Here, there are actually more buyers than sellers.
That is the opportunity.
If you become an early participant, I believe you can create something extraordinary.
And if you understand these aspects, you become grounded.
That is where the real blessing comes from.
There is a traditional blessing: "Chiranjeevi Bhava"—may you live long.
Why give such a blessing?
Because if people like you live long and contribute positively, the earth benefits.
Gurudev is looking for such people and creating such people.
She is one example, and there are millions of others.
As the saying goes, Hari has a thousand hands.
Come and become one of those hands.
It will be a beautiful journey.
Ahana: Thank you so much, everyone.
Everyone has truly enjoyed listening to this conversation, and what we have learned today has been very sincere and meaningful.
We would also like to invite everyone to the conference taking place on August 22 and 23, along with Gurudev and all the other speakers who will be joining us.
From everything we have discussed today, it becomes clear that some of the gaps in our education and awareness systems have contributed to the challenges we face today.
Now, somewhere, we need to become more aware.
We need to understand permaculture.
We need to show that we stand with our farmers.
We need to support natural food and sustainable farming.
When we do that, we create more confidence and courage for ourselves, and we also give the coming generation the courage to enter this field.
So let us all become more aware.
This is not about saying, "This isn't my field, so I don't need to come."
Everyone has a role to play.
We invite all of you to attend the conference, increase your awareness, and support the farmers of our country.
Bhaiya, it was truly wonderful meeting you.
Thank you so much.
You have helped reconnect me with nature once again.
During my own entrepreneurial journey, I realised that when we connect with our own nature, we become capable of fulfilling our responsibilities in a much deeper way.
Taking care of employees, serving clients, managing responsibilities—these are things I learned by connecting with myself.
And now, by reconnecting with nature, I feel that another sense of responsibility is developing within me.
So thank you so much.
It was truly wonderful meeting you.
Binay: Thank you.
Jai Gurudev, everyone.
Ahana: Jai Gurudev.